(12-06-2010, 12:57 PM)greensky52 Wrote: [ -> ]I have some confusion about your explanation?
1. 113A(M/W),123A(S) all lead to 129, and the joint between EA/EB shows a small "129". So can I take EA as the overlap of 129? and think train must run into BJ&EA after passing 129 in the route of 113A(M/W),123A(S) ?
I would normally interpret the numbers adjacent to overlaps to be their length in metres, but certainly in complex areas it is a convention that the relevant signal numbers are noted next to the overlap, though I would suffix G. In this case it does seem that it does mean this as there is the suffix OL and it would otherwise be a strnge coincidence of signal numbering and the fact that overlap lengths normally are quoted to +/- 5m. I think that it is trying to tell us that it isan overlap beyond 129 but not 127, athough it isn't completely clear. So I agree with your interpretation' let us state our assumption and carry on on that basis. However it makes no sense that this is the ONLY overlap; BK/BL would be an overlap beyod 129 and (at a different time of course) beyond 127 as well. Hence I DISAGREE that the train if passing 129 would definitely run onto BJ then CJ (you missed that one!) and then EA; although I agree that this would be the case IF 231 Reverse.
Quote:2. Why ignore 136A,123C(S) and 182B(M) when considering 233R? Sorry, I can not understand your explanation very well... Is it because 233 is crossing point? And crossing point has priority when setting routes?
Several issues:
A. 233 are switch diamonds; they don't give the same value re diverting trains as flanks as a normal point end would do. If we put 233R and then there was a SPAD at 144 the train would trail 233B and almost certainly derail at 233A since it encounters an abrupt change of direction rather than a curve.
B.Even assuming that it did gve some useful trapping, we would then have a choice between
a) calling 233N by routes over 231N (and not calling 233R by routes over 232R),
b) calling 233R by routes over 232R (and not calling 233N by routes over 231N),
b) calling 233R by routes over 232R and calling 233N by routes over 231N but this would mean that we could not route a train from Down Platform to Down Main simultaneously with another train from Up Branch to Up platform- no real reason for this and would be operationally restrictive.
C. Of course if the junction had been sharper and slower speed then there would be no 233 but just a fixed crossing and we couldn't do anything ith that re flank could we?
D. An alternative manner of arranging the numbering of the junction would be to use "3 ended point numbering"; 231 becoming 231A, 233A becoming 231B and 233B becoming 233C.
E. There is sense in setting and locking points that don't actually give useful flank as it tends to lower the chance of a mistake being made in degraded working when signaller has to move points and authorise trains past signal held to danger. For 144, 231 does provide useful flank; for 129A/B by making the signaller set 233N it at least locks out routes such as 127C.
Hence all my instincts are to go for option a) in the list above.
Quote:3. Referring to 182C(M), does it have overlap? And which TC is its overlap? I can not find in the layout... SA??
Yes and No!
It doesn't have a "locking overlap"; there is a note on the plan near 138 wich says it is only approachable when there is a forward route set from the signal and it is this route that defines the point lie. This is a safety feature; although 138 could be at red and thus suffer a SPAD, there would be no "junction collision" but only a lower risk rear end collision at worst.
There will obviously be an "aspect overlap" as a choice has to be made re the limit of track cirrcuit controls to include. This has not been defined so you state your assumption and implement. I'd say EA, CJ but possibly also BJ.
Quote:4. Why they consider 144A(M), 142A(M), 136A(M), but ignore 144A©,142A©,136A©? They all do not have control box, but I suppose 142 136 and 144 all have call-on routes. Am I right?
Thee signal profiles do not have a PL symbol; therefore they cannot have call-on routes.
Quote:Referring to point 235?
I think 236R calls 235N, but not 236N calls 235N...
And why 238 and 235 is point to point? I suppose 238R does not need 235N.... could you kindly give some hints about this reason? I have read your Study Note, but I do not think it can be classified to those 3 types of point to point interlocking...
235/236 at first glance seems to be a crossover but by numbering separately as they have you can see that it is possible for the N lie of 236 to direct a train towards the siding (away from the station) whilst still maintaining the trapping from that siding and thus getting the best of both worlds.
You would not want 235 to go from N to R unless 236 already N and if implementing directly via point-to-point locking then 236N detection would be proved before permitting 235 to be moved either by the Individual Point Switch or route setting.
If only implementing at route setting level, then you'd say that all routes calling 235R would also call 236N but that is plain common sense for line of route anyway, so scarcely worth a mention.
With point-to-point, having got 235R then 236 would be locked N; for 236 to go from N to R would need 235 detected N.
Implementing this at route level leads to all routes over 236R need to call 235N (the signalling reason for this is that as they would want trapping from the siding).
To me, the point that is most likely to be given point-to-point with 238 is 239 for similar reasons (and a bit of a hint is that the two points are within the same track circuit).
However there is indeed also an argument for 235 & 238, since one could never actually need these points both to be reverse simultaneously for any one, or any combination of, train movements. Hence by preventing points ever getting into that state cuts down the "degrees of freedom" and simplifies things in the context of mechanical interlocking- it makes sense to put as much point-to-point in as possible as it cuts down the need to provide other locking quite considerably.The arguments for point-to-point when implemented on route relay interlockings are far less strong.
However the useful thing about being able to spot it is that it
tends to prompt you to think about flank protection and trapping that can so easily get overlooked when doing Control Tables against time constraints.