Hi all

[sgarydav]

I am intending to sit modules 2 and 3 this year. Though I have worked in railway related companies I have limited exposure to signalling design (hence why sitting the exams) but I think this is going to be a challenge to get the knowledge.

Still waiting for the study packs

[PJW]

If you have little experience of signalling design, but have substantial other railway experience it is possible that one of the other modules such as mod 5 or even mod 1 may actually suit you better. Or perhaps what you are saying [now I have checked your Bio] is that you are a safety engineer (and thus ought to find mod 1 & mod 7 quite easy) but since already MIRSE thus have no real need for the exam itself, but just keen to build your railway signalling design domain expertise and just intended to do those modules as a means of doing that.)

It may be a challenge to acquire enough knowledge to fully assimilate in time for the exams. However you are not alone in this: I am currently in Lucknow with some relatively novice Indian signalling designers faced with similar challenge.

I am interested in the non availability of the Study Packs; I assume that you actually registered for the exam some time ago?

I am afraid that my experience is that the IRSE HQ leave it far too late to make this available eah year- since it rarely changes much from year to year (other than add the previous years exam paper) then I really can't see why the work for this cannot be done well prior. Once the exam has been sat in October, surely the papers could be made available to the HQ team and the DVD updated prior to the Christmas / New Year period which has the heavy exam resuts workload. Even if left after this, then surely the DVD ought to be available by March at the latest. The examiners complain (with very significant justification I personally feel) that candidates do not prepare themselves adequately- the flip side of this coin is that the Study Packs ought to be available at least 6 months before the exam. Frankly if I were in charge and someone registered for the exam before the latest DVD available, then I woud at least send the previous year's version and follow up with the amended version as soon as produced.

This is not a one-off; it is a systematic fault that reappears each year. I cannot directly do anything about it, but I am quite prepared to "rattle the cage" of those in a position to be able to do so. The IRSE does charge a significant fee for sitting the exam and includes the provision of the DVD in this- hence definitely seems grounds for complaint. I don't suggest you formally complain, but I promise that I will find the opportunity in due course to express my view of the situation. I don't mind making mysef unpopular if the cause is just.

I am intending to sit modules 2 and 3 this year. Though I have worked in railway related companies I have limited exposure to signalling design (hence why sitting the exams) but I think this is going to be a challenge to get the knowledge.

Still waiting for the study packs

[Peter]

I am interested in the non availability of the Study Packs; I assume that you actually registered for the exam some time ago?

I am afraid that my experience is that the IRSE HQ leave it far too late to make this available eah year- since it rarely changes much from year to year (other than add the previous years exam paper) then I really can't see why the work for this cannot be done well prior. Once the exam has been sat in October, surely the papers could be made available to the HQ team and the DVD updated prior to the Christmas / New Year period which has the heavy exam resuts workload. Even if left after this, then surely the DVD ought to be available by March at the latest. The examiners complain (with very significant justification I personally feel) that candidates do not prepare themselves adequately- the flip side of this coin is that the Study Packs ought to be available at least 6 months before the exam. Frankly if I were in charge and someone registered for the exam before the latest DVD available, then I woud at least send the previous year's version and follow up with the amended version as soon as produced.

This is not a one-off; it is a systematic fault that reappears each year. I cannot directly do anything about it, but I am quite prepared to "rattle the cage" of those in a position to be able to do so. The IRSE does charge a significant fee for sitting the exam and includes the provision of the DVD in this- hence definitely seems grounds for complaint. I don't suggest you formally complain, but I promise that I will find the opportunity in due course to express my view of the situation. I don't mind making mysef unpopular if the cause is just.

I spoke to them about the study packs when they had a stand at Railtex. I, like Peter, cannot see the reason about "getting it updated" as being realistic. Why would it only be done in response to the last exam. Learning information is either valid or not and the world does not move on with the exam cycle. Given that last year's papers are available on the website, holing up the pack for their inclusion is bunk.

Speaking of online, why is the pack not online.

Another idea is that why get it free when you register. Why not have a fee when you buy it but the agreement that if you have bought the study pack, you get a discount in your exam fees, valid for four modules totalling the amount paid for the study pack. Gets the student access to the pack as soon as they want it, and becomes cost neutral on both sides. We planted that seed - does anyone have some water and sunshine to nurse it?

Peter

[sgarydav]

Thanks for your reply.

I contacted IRSE about study packs, they said it would be sent out within the week.

I have registered for the exam. I am try a few exam questions and reading around the subject. Trying to see from a designers and operators view point.

My reasons for sitting the exam is to improve my knowledge of core signalling. I did not want to choose modules just to pass. I may only just do the 2 modules.

[dorothy.pipet]

I am interested that you say the study packs will be sent out this week; I'll be watching my postbox!
I registered and paid some time ago, and was rattling cages several weeks ago and have not received mine yet. Like Peter and PJM I can't understand why it is considered reasonable to send the material out so late. I was told that alternatively I could buy the study materials as a separate item and get it sooner, but I think thats dreadful as effectively I'm paying twice. Also to buy a product and hear nothing for over a month is not acceptable service in my book.

[PJW]

I am interested that you say the study packs will be sent out this week; I'll be watching my postbox!
I registered and paid some time ago, and was rattling cages several weeks ago and have not received mine yet. Like Peter and PJW I can't understand why it is considered reasonable to send the material out so late. I was told that alternatively I could buy the study materials as a separate item and get it sooner, but I think thats dreadful as effectively I'm paying twice. Also to buy a product and hear nothing for over a month is not acceptable service in my book.

1. Study Pack Unavailabilty
Fully agree with Dorothy
re a) non availability [I believe that any updating whichis to be done on a yearly cycle should have been undertaken either
i) BEFORE the Exam Review (typically held mid Jan - mearly Feb) or ii) JUST AFTER this (and in that case INCLUDE the report of that Examiner feedback meeting).
It would not surprise me in the least that, even having waited all this time, then no such report will be included.
"Unacceptable" seems to be the appropriate word.

and

b) non communication. If ordering any product from any supplier then my expectation would be that in the rare cicumstance of it not being available to enable the order to be fulfilled within a maximum of 2 weeks, then I would expect as a minimum some feedback of when I could expect- in the days of email this is hardly difficult or expensive.
Again "Unacceptable" seems to be the appropriate word.

I actually have an outline arrangement for an unrelated IRSE matter to meet with David Weedon (who has just become the IRSE President for the year) in the next few weeks- I will not let the opportunity for letting my feelings be felt on the above matter to slip by. Won't help the immediate problem, but hopefully promote changed attitudes and action for next.


2. Study Pack pre purchase

I think Peter has a good suggestion. Actully I'd suggest perhaps modifying slightly, such that the prchase of the Study Pack could be undertaken SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH or PRIOR TO purchase of an exam module place, but make it a necessary condition of being able to register.
I can't quite recall the current cost of a module but say it is £60, then charge £20 for the relevant Study Pack portion and then £40 for the exam place but not permit the 2nd without the 1st. For someone resitting the module after a non-appearance of earlier failure, then they would only pay the £40 for the next year(s).
May therefore be beneficial to such candidates (some of whom may being prevented from attending the exam due to illness, urgent family committments, work demands ec) and also less of an admin burden- particularly as it appears to me that the only way thi year of registerng for the exam is using an on-line form from the memebers area of the website (When in Lucknow I tried to download to create paper copies of form for students to complete, but I couldn't find and only a dorm which wanted to know which modules I personally intended to sit this year- so I beat a rapid exit!).

However the problem with that suggestion is it will expose the wide discrepency of quantity of info between the modules- there is effectively nothing for modules 4 & 6, moderate amounts of (to my mind varying quality and usefulness for modules 1,3,5,7) and a great wodge for module 2.

3. Study Pack online availability
I understand it was the intention (about 3 years ago!) to move the Study Pack files to the "Members only area" and make free to download whenever, whereever.
This is probably the best strategy- I for one am somewhat reluctant to think that the charge should be any more than just nominal to cover the direct costs of providing an additional copy- the info itself should be free without any consideration to contributing profit. Afterall the technical content was all created by members of the IRSE doing so for the Institution in their own time for free.

When I produced mod 2 pack the main text of it was one very large Word file- yes there were disadvantages with this in terms of its size but it certainly made comprehensive internal cross-referenceing relatively easy.
In early 2010 and in early 2011 I gave the IRSE amended versions (to bring up to date with recent exam and feedback etc, plus muklttiple individually small tweaks to correct typos, other silly errors, poor explanations, minor additions that in retrospect and through feedback on use seemed advisable etc.).
However I was then told in Jan 2012 that they had in the mean-time split it so that each chapter was now its own separate Word file to make it compatible with other modules and to make easy putting on line and then facilitating individual updating later- I could see the logic.

So I then had to go back and redo all my alterations again on each of these separate files, only to find that they had done the split from the ORIGINAL version of the Study Pack when written several more years ago so I then had to do all the intevenng minor catch-ups as well. Of course by this date I hadn't kept all the "difference files" and so I had an awful job of cross comparision to the version earlier year versions to attempt to resolve the "version control problem" that the IRSE HQ admin had inflicted on my work. I couldn't, by the publication deadline (April I think), complete everything but I bust-a-gut to ensure that I had done all the most important chnges on all the most important chapters by the time needed to suit their publication schedule.

So what did they include on the Study Pack?
Not these updated separate Chapters that I had burnt the mid-night oil upon and also taken to do on a family holiday.
No they used the "one Word file" version. But not the updated one I had sent them to use, but an earlier outdated one.
Result is I had one the updating work twice (and more through their incompetence from splitting a wrong version!), yet the students got none of the benefit from me having done it. I WAS NOT HAPPY!

Later on (in around Oct 2011) I asked whether they intended to use the "one Word file" or "separate chapters" version for 2012 and stated that until they sent me back the files that they regarded at that time of constituting the "baseline", that I would not be updating as didn't want to waste any more effort. I was told I would be told in due time and never was.

In December 2012 I again tried to reinvigorate to avoid the Mod 2 pack (for which I feel responsible) getting as out of date as all the rest, but because staff changes had occurred and employees getting towards retirement age being asked to leave, no one really knew what was to happen....

I had put this to the back of my mind, but actually another item for my forthcoming discussion with David Weedon. May also feature in the IRSE News article re the examination and its results that is on my "to-do" list (but deprioritised at present).

Post script
In fairness to the IRSE HQ, having now checked through the backlog of work emails for the last week I find that I have received this from Christine White:

As you know, we need to review the need for the Exam DVD, at least in its current format, and explore alternative methods which would provide candidates with information of real use to them and inviting several to a meeting to discuss in June.

[PJW]

Christine White of IRSE HQ has just let me know that they have the Study DVDs for distribution, so the wait should soon be over and that excuse disappeared.