long and short train

[oxfordjack]

What problem happens operate long train and short trains in track circuit of system???

[Peter]

What problem happens operate long train and short trains in track circuit of system???

Are you referring to the issue of who the maximum an minimum TC lengths are constrained and the issues with physical stagger of block joints?

MINIMUM TC length is determined by the length of the LONGEST wheelbase train operating on the network. The SHORTEST TC must be LONGER than the maximum distance between the inner wheels of a wagon so that a wagon cannot "bridge" over a complete TC section.

The physical stagger of block joints is governed by the SHORTEST wheelbase vechicle such that a vehicle cannot sit entirely within the dead section of TC that occurs where block joints are not directly opposite eachother.

Max TC length is determined (mostly) by electical characteristics.

If that is not what you are asking, please let me know.

Peter

[oxfordjack]

What problem happens operate long train and short trains in track circuit of system???

Are you referring to the issue of who the maximum an minimum TC lengths are constrained and the issues with physical stagger of block joints?

If that is not what you are asking, please let me know.

Peter

Thank you.

My problem is ambiguous.

I would like to ask long length train and short length train running in same rail system, what problems happen?

[PJW]

What problem happens operate long train and short trains in track circuit of system???

Are you referring to the issue of who the maximum an minimum TC lengths are constrained and the issues with physical stagger of block joints?

If that is not what you are asking, please let me know.

Peter

Thank you.

My problem is ambiguous.

I would like to ask long length train and short length train running in same rail system, what problems happen?

Mainline railways tend to have trains of all sorts of lengths and this generally don't give too many problems. However layout design is a bit of a compromise; to accomodate long freight trains we need to ensure adequate standage which can mean that signals cannot be placed in what would otherwise be the optimum position for layout risk / overlap length / signal sighting.

Metro lines often have one particular train length / formation. They are also far more constrained re physical space and the need for much more capacity. I believe that a mix of train lengths and types is a much greater problem.
a) For one thing if the platforms have platform screen doors then the doors on the platform must match up with the trains. If a shorter train formation is used then there wil be a platform door that must NOT open when the train arrives or else passengers go through it and fall onto the track.

b) However it is more than that; to squeeze the maximum capacity from a system then the position of the rear of the train is crucial as it defines how close the signal in rear can be placed (just outside the overlap).

c) Similarly London Underground tends not to use sectional route release in the way that Network Rail does and detects the front of the train as a cross-check that the train detection section just vacated by the rear of the train really is clear; obviously a mix of train lengths makes that excessively complicated as well.

Is this the sort of thing you were meaning?;
it would help us to understand if you explained what gave rise to you asking the question.

[greensky52]

In the Metro Line I work in, the company planed the 4car and 6car trains run together as there are not enough 4car trains for opening. The background is that 6car trains were all rent from other companies, we want to use our train--4car train when the extension line was opening. We did a summary of the shortcomings of this senario.

1\ Platform Screen Door is too difficult to operate seperately for these two kinds of trains. So PSD only open for 4car trains. When 6car trains arrived, only 4car PSD open. It also requires operating staff to cut the 6car train into 2 parts, and passengers are not allowed to entry the last 2 cars. What is more worse is changing cab. When the train is changing cab, it needs staff to close other 2 cars in the other end.
2\The stopping point is also a problem. You can imagin this issue. It always brings difficulties to the operator.
3\ When the actual headway is not too short, more than the design limit, the length of train does not affect too much. But when the headway is very close to the limit, I think it may cause problems.
4\It requires passegener information system is good enough. It needs to remind passengers to stand in proper position for the next train. If the next train is 4car while he stand in the position which is just the end of 6car train, he has to run for nearly 40meters to get on the train.

In summary, I find I state the issue mostly from the view of the operating staff, not the siganlling engineer.^_^

What problem happens operate long train and short trains in track circuit of system???

Are you referring to the issue of who the maximum an minimum TC lengths are constrained and the issues with physical stagger of block joints?

If that is not what you are asking, please let me know.

Peter

Thank you.

My problem is ambiguous.

I would like to ask long length train and short length train running in same rail system, what problems happen?

Mainline railways tend to have trains of all sorts of lengths and this generally don't give too many problems. However layout design is a bit of a compromise; to accomodate long freight trains we need to ensure adequate standage which can mean that signals cannot be placed in what would otherwise be the optimum position for layout risk / overlap length / signal sighting.

Metro lines often have one particular train length / formation. They are also far more constrained re physical space and the need for much more capacity. I believe that a mix of train lengths and types is a much greater problem.
a) For one thing if the platforms have platform screen doors then the doors on the platform must match up with the trains. If a shorter train formation is used then there wil be a platform door that must NOT open when the train arrives or else passengers go through it and fall onto the track.

b) However it is more than that; to squeeze the maximum capacity from a system then the position of the rear of the train is crucial as it defines how close the signal in rear can be placed (just outside the overlap).

c) Similarly London Underground tends not to use sectional route release in the way that Network Rail does and detects the front of the train as a cross-check that the train detection section just vacated by the rear of the train really is clear; obviously a mix of train lengths makes that excessively complicated as well.

Is this the sort of thing you were meaning?;
it would help us to understand if you explained what gave rise to you asking the question.

[PJW]

Certainly this is a different "take" on the question.

Goes to show what "workarounds" are sometimes necessary to overcome a difficulty that ideally should have been avoided if everything had been delivered to plan.

And yes it is often the Operators and also the Customers who pay the price when the engineers let them down!

In the Metro Line I work in, the company planed the 4car and 6car trains run together as there are not enough 4car trains for opening. The background is that 6car trains were all rent from other companies, we want to use our train--4car train when the extension line was opening. We did a summary of the shortcomings of this senario.

1\ Platform Screen Door is too difficult to operate seperately for these two kinds of trains. So PSD only open for 4car trains. When 6car trains arrived, only 4car PSD open. It also requires operating staff to cut the 6car train into 2 parts, and passengers are not allowed to entry the last 2 cars. What is more worse is changing cab. When the train is changing cab, it needs staff to close other 2 cars in the other end.
2\The stopping point is also a problem. You can imagin this issue. It always brings difficulties to the operator.
3\ When the actual headway is not too short, more than the design limit, the length of train does not affect too much. But when the headway is very close to the limit, I think it may cause problems.
4\It requires passegener information system is good enough. It needs to remind passengers to stand in proper position for the next train. If the next train is 4car while he stand in the position which is just the end of 6car train, he has to run for nearly 40meters to get on the train.

In summary, I find I state the issue mostly from the view of the operating staff, not the siganlling engineer.^_^