combined level crossing flashing lights and traffic lights

[interesting_signal]

Thought I'd add some points to the answers above.

Road traffic lights and rail flashing lights combined on one post are a very common occurence in Australia, especially in Victoria. In Melbourne there will also be trams crossing the railway in many places, as well the road itself. At complex junctions (where traffic lights would be required anyway, even if the railway was not present) then both sets of lights will be combined on the same post. This reduces the amount of roadside 'furniture' and making it less cluttered and ensuring all the lights are visible to road users. The road authority supplies a traffic light controller. As Laura said there will be a signalling input (outer approach) to this, which tells the traffic lights to go into the rail phase.

I am not sure what the SIL level is, but the controller is designed so that a green is never shown over the crossing when the rail lights are flashing (note no amber light on the rail lights). If you pull the test switch in the crossing location the traffic lights will go to flashing amber. This is the state they go to as well if there is some sort of traffic light failure or if they become 'out of phase'.

There can also be a power failure associated with the RTL (not usually on a UPS/backed-up supply), in which case they would extinguish, but the rail flashing lights will still protect the road from a train.

I think I have a document which states the general requirements for traffic light co-ordination so I will try and dig it out and post it here. I might have some drawings too showing the inputs. Will see what I can find.

There are different philosophies in the different states in Australia. For example in NSW the RTL will never show a green light over the crossing. Instead the traffic lights on the near side of the crossing will extinguish but there will be another set of lights on the other side of the crossing which will show green. In Victoria it's normal for the traffic lights to show a green over a rail crossing.

Also, most (or certainly the busier/high risk) crossing in Victoria are AHBC, which is quite different from the UK. The preference to take the human interface out of the equation. Lower risk crossings, or ones that have not been upgraded yet, would still be automatic, but would be flashing lights only (no barriers). I don't know of any installations where there is CCTV monitoring. Where they are full gates across the road (kept for historical reasons and fairly rare) there will be a person in the gate box who will close the gates across the road. I know of one location where these gates were not locked (i.e. no interlocking with the signalling), and on more than one ocassion the gates had not been opened for the train and the train went through them. They are now locked at that particular location. Flashing red lights prevented the road users from going over the crossing.

Other issues which can arise are ownership and maintenance of the pole! In most states (if not all) the rail authority is the owner of the pole and responsible for it, e.g. if a car/lorry crashes into it the rail authority is responsible for fixing it/installing a new pole, lights etc.

[PJW]

Thought I'd add some points to the answers above.

Thsnks very much for doing so; if I had been more on the ball then I'd have asked you to! Sorry that I'd temporarily forgotten your Australian experience.
If you find the supporting material then yes it'd be good to upload this as well.

[interesting_signal]

No problem. Nice to be able to contribute by answering for once!

Here's a document explaining the requirements for the TLC. Apologies for the poor quality of the drawing, but I don't have a better copy.

[losler]

I know someone who is advocating the sole use of traffic light style indications rather than the usual flashing railway lights with the thought that road users are more used to encountering a traffic light and thus know how to behave at one.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

[PJW]

I think it might depend on experience re how motorists do behave; in UK quite a few decide to chance it at a normal red traffic light which has just changed from green- perhaps Australians are better behaved.

As stated before, in the UK the regulations re a police officer giving handsignal taking precedence over traffic lights is another thing that would need to be considered.

I have come across traffic lights controlling alternate direction traffic flow over a narrow bridge when I have been stopped at them for a period that I judged excessive given the length of the narrow section and pervious experience at the site and it seemed as if the doppler sensor had been deliberately misaligned so that an approaching vehicle would not be detected. Due to a bend just prior to the bridge unable to see the opposite traffic light or vehicles approaching it or even on the bridge. However felt I could not just stay there for ever and being late at night and dark felt I'd get some warning of oncoming vehicle. Therefore decided to adopt the "sound horn, proceed slowly keeping a careful lookout" approach, knowing that the pair of right angled bends would also act as a form speed constraint in the opposite direction. I think many other drivers would do similarly. Would I have done that at a level crossing I ask myself?; knowing what I d,o yes perhaps at a CCTV but certainly not at an AOCL, ABCL, AHBC etc.
Can't expect average motorist to appreciate the difference of where it might be reasonable to bend the rules and when it would be unacceptable to do so; hence placing all level crossings into same category and differentiating by different road signals is sensible. However following this argument to logical conclusion then using standrd traffic lights at CCTV crossings whilst retaining the wig-wags at others does have some logic.

I know someone who is advocating the sole use of traffic light style indications rather than the usual flashing railway lights with the thought that road users are more used to encountering a traffic light and thus know how to behave at one.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

[onestrangeday]

thanks for everyone's effort to answer my question. I have gain a better understanding on the subject.

My personal view on losler question is that:

Although, either in the situation where flashing red lights activated, or traffic lights in the red phase the driver for sure knows that it means stop; however, one of the human factors needed to consider is that motorists often acknowledge that flashing red lights are strongly associate with level crossing and traffic lights with conventional road intersections. Therefore, drivers will be confused if they see traffic lights at crossing without prior exposure or expectation that this may occur especially if we consider the scenario in different countries (often there are no traffic lights installed with the level crossing in some countries) or different environments (urban, outskirts etc.).

however, this only my personal view on the matter.

I think it might depend on experience re how motorists do behave; in UK quite a few decide to chance it at a normal red traffic light which has just changed from green- perhaps Australians are better behaved.

As stated before, in the UK the regulations re a police officer giving handsignal taking precedence over traffic lights is another thing that would need to be considered.

I have come across traffic lights controlling alternate direction traffic flow over a narrow bridge when I have been stopped at them for a period that I judged excessive given the length of the narrow section and pervious experience at the site and it seemed as if the doppler sensor had been deliberately misaligned so that an approaching vehicle would not be detected. Due to a bend just prior to the bridge unable to see the opposite traffic light or vehicles approaching it or even on the bridge. However felt I could not just stay there for ever and being late at night and dark felt I'd get some warning of oncoming vehicle. Therefore decided to adopt the "sound horn, proceed slowly keeping a careful lookout" approach, knowing that the pair of right angled bends would also act as a form speed constraint in the opposite direction. I think many other drivers would do similarly. Would I have done that at a level crossing I ask myself?; knowing what I d,o yes perhaps at a CCTV but certainly not at an AOCL, ABCL, AHBC etc.
Can't expect average motorist to appreciate the difference of where it might be reasonable to bend the rules and when it would be unacceptable to do so; hence placing all level crossings into same category and differentiating by different road signals is sensible. However following this argument to logical conclusion then using standrd traffic lights at CCTV crossings whilst retaining the wig-wags at others does have some logic.

I know someone who is advocating the sole use of traffic light style indications rather than the usual flashing railway lights with the thought that road users are more used to encountering a traffic light and thus know how to behave at one.

What are peoples thoughts on this?